[Music] hello my name is Jason Peck and this isa comedy Q&A interview with Milwaukee’s official jester Jane the full also known as writer performer AE Shapera in this interview we talked a little bit about the history of jesters as well as her experience working as a professional jester if this is something that interests you maybe becoming a jester or even one of the Walkabout performers that you see at some of the Renaissance Fairs here in the United States has written a book on the subject called Easy Street links are below in the meantime please enjoy this interview with Milwaukee’s Official Jester Jane the Phoole.

thanks hello how are you so good morning indeed doing pretty wellI’ve been looking forward to this I sojust to clarify we when we initiallymessaged about this we would justbriefly talking about your name yes itis AE Shapiro right – fantastic I’m gladI got that right the first time aroundhow do they normally do thatI guess chaperone or Shapiro a lot andwork Shapiro and Shapiro are from thesame town in Germany Shia but right oneof us is Sephardic Jews and the othersAshkenazi and I can switch by I’m gladso what I wanted to find out from youobviously we’ve got a the main area thatI want to talk to you about but I justwanted to talk to you a little bit aboutyour background as a performer andentertainer if I can first so what isyour what is your background how do youknow where did you studyand how did you get to this point paraeveryone from Cab Calloway to Baker toeverybody he was the house basis at theJazz showcase for a time he travels withDixieland he’s a super amazing performerand as a very young child I was around alot of improvisation that was musicalinstead of verbal but because of myupbringing just being exposed to thatkind of bebop improvisation where thereis a structure but then there’s a lot offreedom within that structure but tofully explore that freedom you have tohave immense technique and immenselexicons of musical knowledge I thinkfrom a very early age I developed ahealthy it albeit subconsciousappreciation for there’s a lot more toconversation than just talking there’slistening and there’s building thatlexicon of experience and that lexiconof everything that everybody else hasalready said in case you want toleverage it to make the conversationflying or anything so when I when Idiscovered that I wanted to be aperformer thanks to the Muppet movie ofall things when I was 9 years old themovie came out and I saw the theater andanother little thing about my backgroundI think it’s important to mention isthat my mother was an alcoholic and andone five people in the US grew up in analcoholic family and one in four peopleworldwide have grown up in thissituation that’s like a known apsychological phenomenon but becausethere’s such a taboo nobody ever talkedabout it which is I like thatand one of the things that that did forme was my mother always told me I wasbut I was hideous why would anyoneeveryone look at me why would I wantperform and deliberately invite peopleto look at me but I saw the Muppet movieand I liked this frog is making millionsof people happy a frog can do that I cando that too so goddamn high schoolstarted doing the theatricals going tocollege and encountered a grad studentin theater program at Northern IllinoisUniversity because if you want to learnabout people condition go to the middleof a cornfield don’t know scholarshipthere’s long way but this resident saidhey you’re really loud and funny youshould perform outdoors called aRenaissance Faire uh-huh so I joined thedirt circus in 1990 sorry does circus[Laughter][Applause]I’m not sure I American phenomenon wherebecause we were colonized in the 16thcentury were as a culture incapable andmoving past it morally you’re welcomethanks evolves from colonies are sort ofaccording to David Starkey noted Tudorhistorian he has a theory about nationsthat originated as colonies which isthat you’re sort of morally frozen inthe era of colonization yeah interestreally yeah right so we have thisPuritan work ethic we have this we havethis obsession with social hierarchy andthis obsession with lineage yes and ofcourse you know the UK has now moved andgrown and moved in the future and we’restuck rigidly in the 16th centurymorally so and now we’re trying to goback as well because it’s the amazingI’m glad I know how to make rocks youain’t making right exactlyeverybody needs some black woollencurdles yeah so because of all of thatum these Renaissance Faire things existthere’s a blend between the Dungeons &Dragons fantasy yeah cosplay world andpeople who so desperately feel a bondwith Tudor England but they’ve just gotto live it so yeah so once I starteddoing that I looked at all the women inthe industry who were performing andwhere we’re great into your charactersand their Elise basic archetypes peoplecould be like the Queen or they could bea wife a daughter a prostitute and I waslike surely prior to the IndustrialRevolution women had more fascinatingoccupations than this and I discoveredthat not only was that true but thatElizabeth had many female jesters and infact all of the Monarchsaround the world everywhere in Turkey inChina in Japan all over the world therewere all these cultures with women whowere court jesters whether they wereartificial fools being agitatorsjugglers trade performers or what werecalled natural fools who were people whowere differently physically able ordifferently mentally able who were sortof retained as human pets because thepast is another country and that’s humanbeings oh right to do weird things likethat we absolutely do so yeah every mysorry it reminds me of there was a yousaw Black Adder just reminded of thatthat joke fromthe Elizabethan times Blackadder iiwhere the queen is talking about whatare those people have the bells and theysay Jess’s and she goes no lepers seasonof blackout sort of nicely sums uphumanity’s view to other areas ofhumanity as well right we’re sohierarchical and we were so tribal andwe so need to exclude others and it’sjust a part of who we are so so whatI’ve learned about these female jestersI learned about one in particular who isnamed her her full name was Jane bead ormaybe Bettis in different accountingrecords for five years it’s alldifferent ways cuz non-standard spellingis so free and a rose so she was areally fascinating character there’s somuch written about her from accountingperspective like she had her head shavedroutinely Wow okay it’s never reallyexplained why maybe she was sick maybeshe had the mange maybe Elizabeth justreally liked having a bald person aroundand that’s not a typical thing for womenof that era though right not at all notat all women were prized for the lengthof luster and Sheen of their hair andwigs were very fashionable yeah yeah soit’s really unusual to have a bald womanrunning around your palace but um theother jesters of the time period I’mactually bring down John Southworth’sfool suggested to the English Court as avisual aid but that’s one of the one ofthe keys to the primary sources of theera that I found about Jane she had herown clothes a lot of the other jestersin the era wore hand-me-downs orcastoffs or Motley’s pulled togetherfrom clothes that they received as giftsbut Jane had her own elaborate wardrobe12 pairs of shoes a year she hadhorse she had ducks and geese and shelike an Elizabethan Imelda Marcos yesexactly except not she was given theseas part of her allowance bag attached tothe royal household I think she probablyjust lost her shoes a lot you know she’sprobably just a real mess because shewas differently mentally abled it was itwas written about her that she wouldjust blurt out the first thing that cameto her mind which made her reallyvaluable to the royal person rightbecause she was the only person attachedto the household who wasn’t ambitiousright she wasn’t gonna flatter the Queenor give a dishonest answer she couldn’tshe she lacked the Wits to prevaricateso so yeah it’s like oh why is nobodyplaying this person this is the bestcharacter ever I’m gonna do this therest of my life and that’s great yeahand so so she’s essentially you’re likeyour time twin if you like exactly and Ilike that expression because there was Idon’t know if you ever saw it maybe youdid there was a movie in the 80s calledBiggles so just just briefly but theydon’t want to get on too much of asidetrack about this movie it was aworld war two flying ace these were likestories British stories written back inthe day and they were good they weremaking this working to make this movieand then Back to the Future came out itwas a big hit and they went or why don’twe crowbar in some time travel into thisas well and we need an American in thereto be able to sell it to Americanaudiences and internationally so we’llmake Biggles time traveller Wowand so the premise is essentially thisAmerican guy he’s the time twin ofBiggles this world war one flying acewho never existed in real life and thenthere would be like thunder andlightning and suddenly they weretransporting to each other’s time Wowright with no no machine no machineryanything like that is Joehere we are and but they though the oneof the expressions I remembered from itwas the term time twin and I really likethat idea and wait yeah and when you andI were first talking about via messengerand you mentioned Jane our mutual friendJen mentioned Jane Thal I was googledand then Jane the fool came up and youdidn’t I thought well that’s interestingand then you and I spoke and that’s whatmade me think of that expression youknow time twin right absolutely yeahabsolutelyyou should Nick it that’d be great sothis is just just briefly we spoke alittle bit about your background and howyou came to being a jester this is beingso being that jester then is one of theways in which you earn a living rightit’s really more of a fulcrum to all ofthe other ways that I hustle all of mymuscles are tied to the fool identity asit were got itand the City of Milwaukee yeah yeah thespell off I saw that so yeah how did youhow did that arrived I mean did theyhave one debate did you have do you havea predecessor no the first Wowappointment oh it is yeah it was passedby a unanimous resolution of the CommonCouncil in September of 2004 that’sfantastic and the waking about is ishilarious a few years before that thePayton family who lives at MuncasterCastle in Cumbria and the beautiful LakeDistrict in UK okay um I’ve just alittle bit of Raven glass a littlequarter sail railroad that you couldridea tiny little town that has some sheepand it’s adorable it’s so beautifulthere they favor stopped me because inorder to encourage tourism at the castleon the grass they have a 90 acreBluebell would say this sprawlinggrounds these amazing Gardens and Owleryand all the stuff well they decidedbecause they were the original home ofthe original tomfool oh okay Tom Sheltonwas gestured to the Pennington family inthe 16th century okay and he’s the wordtom foolery comes from that dude like hewas it Wow right exactly so so they havereally embraced the family embracedtheir full connection and they do afestival every year at the end of Junewhere they have an internationaltournament I said we would really lovefor you to attend and represent Americarepresents his Milwaukee and Stockton sowe finally got the trip togetherresponse to go all that sort of thingthe we had a friend mutual friends inMinneapolis who is the official towncrier of st. Paul the world Wow like inone of these one of these giant heraldrytournaments for people who are towncriers yeah and so so my spouse gottogether with a friend of ours whohappens to be the deputy city clerk ofthe City of Milwaukee episod okay heylet’s get let’s get Jane the fool somecredentials to attach her to the city sothey talked to some members of CountyCouncil they thought it was a great ideaand now I have this really impressiveplaquewow that is pretty massive 2007 Ifinally went over and competed in theInternational gesture tournament Ididn’t take first but I still definitelywon because I was the first woman tocompete one of the first Americans and II was the after the competition all ofthe TV stations were served swarmingover to me going getting her she cantalk he definitely can talk she can talkshe can talk the talk she knows he’s amouse get her get her close and so soyou’re sort of saying then that othergestures that were there yeah well nottalkative well they have duringtheir show but what I do the fool is abit different from what everybody elsewas doing a lot of the in fact all theother competitors were really a varietyperformers jugglers sit walkersmagicians balloon entertainers promptcomedians multiple genres physicalcomedians and my shake is I talk topeople that’s what I doso my performance I really I startedjust milli around the grounds engagingpeople this beautiful like 16th centurypalace these rolling hills in Cumbriawith all this history attached to it tobe in the motley at that place wasincredibly amazing and just sort of Janepulled it up with people for a weekbefore the competition for this insaneAmerican woman with her favorite accentsis being and bowing all of us and weloved it and time and the family enjoyedit so much but I’m hurt lost you roll upin motley whenever I want[Music]cool so though this castle in actualreal England that will have me overanytime so yeah that is great this isfine yeah that sounds really funthat’s really cool so yeah you just sortof briefly touched upon what some of theother gestures were doing in terms oflike the performance and although youknow I did a quick Google because I’llbe honest with you right now I shouldhave mentioned this before I myknowledge of gestures is really reallythin I have certain comic history thatI’m aware ofand I only have a passing awareness ofjesters but the Google when I did thesearch it was sort of telling me thatjust as typically you know dude jugglingand and sorts of other you know varioussort of physical comedy but you don’t dothat I can I do but I’m not the bestjuggler I am nothing I’m not acompetition level juggler right I keep afew balls in the air right but I am moreof an artist of conversation I’m anartist of of including the audienceelevating the audience in social statusestablishing common ground betweenmyself and the audience even if we’re400 years apart languages apart culturesapart economic statuses apart find thatcommon ground and making theconversation worth it for myself for theguests and for everyone who might bewithin a mile of that interaction so sobecause that’s the kind of show I bringit’s a different show every time there’sfresh material every time because Inever know who I’m going to meet I’mgonna be people from all over the worldwhenever I do one of these events so soyeah so it’s it’s a different kind ofvariety performing it’s very situationalvery improvisational and often veryuproarious and ridiculous yeah I saw Ithink there was a at some point I’ve gottwo kids I’m not sure if I mention thatoneone six one three I think certainlywithin the last six years we we try togo the Bristol Renfro as often as youcan as it’s easy as the kids get older Ithink we run into you at least onceWow four five years actually oh thenmaybe not who was that who are stillthere so it’s entirely possible that youso maybe we did see when our youngestwas about a year old then possiblybecause I I guess also because we havemutual friends and I see your picturescoming up on Facebook I feel like I’veseen you more recently then it’sprobably true I have society so while wewere just touching on aspects ofperformance there I’m one of questionsare what I asked you was what’s thedifference and maybe not officially butin your mind at least was the differbetween a gesture and what a clown doesso a line that I often use because whenI’m in the motley it it’s very clownlooking it’s very a lot bright colorsit’s a huge turd over a giantfarthingale I wear an oversized bombrole it’s completely inappropriate tothe era but is comical it’s large enoughthat people will like leave stuff on itlike a plate or a dog or baby stuff it’sso big that I’ve named it it’s called abum Rolly oh okay nice okay look myfriend the Shakespearean always my backand so I have this ridiculous look thatis a little bit cloudy and there’s afair number of people who are terrifiedclowns yes one of the lines that Ialways use to offset that fears they’replowing idiots as DIF calves the highlystrained I’m just stupidwhich very very hurriedly and terriblysums up the difference between the typeof fool that Jane was my time twin yes aclown is there there are many clowns whowere artificial gestures artificialpools and her maxi sport and artificialis a dagger Tori term it’s not adeprecation it’s that this person haspracticed an arch so like you know therewere many famous clowns of the era whowere attached to the court so Ned Allenwas one of them many Burbage was one ofthem right so yeah was another one theseare people who were trained in comedywho had studied who had performed at theends of course who had toured who hadthey were classically literate they hadread the ancients they might even haveLatin write but Jane was not one ofthese Jane was I was kind of human ablenot too extreme because I don’t thinkthat modern American audiences inparticular really wants to see yaportrayal it will be upsetting it’ll beit won’t be honoring the people whoreally live with that as a part of theirlivesso so I kind of just players with woodynincompoop just a forgetful sort ofchatty cocktail hostess basicallybasically assume I assume that allguests are all visitors all patrons arealso nobility and it’s my job to makesure that they go and meet all of theother famous rich people so Iimmediately ennoble everybody bybestowing titles on them and ridiculousnames and then I immediately rush themoff to the nearest ridiculously wealthyEarl or Countess or Baron or othercourier to make sure the big matchand then we all have a wonderfulconversation together in the vein ofBaal decide custom Yana is the courierso that we can talk about what reallymakes a person Noble or whatever we haveto talk about what was that what wasthat last thing you just saidBob does sound like a CEO name thecourtier you never read this no it’sokay this is ridiculous I have beentraining people at Renaissance Fairs inthe dirt circus for 20 yearsokay hardly anyone in this vein has everread this book this book was written inthe 16th century by Italian courier okayand it’s a conversation betweenimaginary characters who are allcourtiers one of whom is a woman andthey’re all talking about what theessential qualities of being a nobleperson are and it’s a really fast readit’s really funny it’s basically amanual to being a 16th centuryaristocrat but most people who playsucceeding century scraps have neverread it yeah breadcrumbs there’s allthis evidence lying around yeah rightright same thing with niccolòmachiavelli the prince is still thereyou can read it you can get a comic bookversion of it ah right there’s like manycomic book versions there’s five minutesyou know thug history videos ofMachiavelli’s The Prince but nobody it’sthere they left it for you it’s goodit’s I think it sounds like it’s kind ofsimilar to Shakespeare in a way becausehe’s like here the road maps andeveryone we seem to be like we’re gonnathrow this away and we’re gonna do itwe’re supposed to do it right we’regonna put it in English no it’s alrightactually already in English can you justcan you justjust while we’re briefly on that I justwanted to mention to you this willprobably sound like a digression it’sjust come into my head you were talkingabout doing an English accent whenyou’re performing Jane the fool yeahobviously I’m not gonna put you on thespot and make you do that in front of anEnglish person I was just wondering ifyou knew anything about originalpronunciation I’m huge fan of Opie andthat wonderful book in the case rightnow I can see it I can’t hurt us allright now who’s working with the peopleof the globe and doing the one or twoOpie productions during their regularseason so I know that I know there’s afather and a son my father’s nameescapes me even though I’ve had an evenexchange with him and that’s really badhis son is called Ben yes Shakespeare ontoast yes yes that’s the guy and I’membarrassed that I can’t recall his namevomit but his work is fantastic and theway that they’ve been able to tease outthe vowel sounds of the consistency andconsonants and the consistency in vows Ihave found that if you try to persuade amodern American audiencethat’s aristocrats from the 6th 10thcentury same did leaked onto that yeahthey don’t they absolutely think you’rethat you’re in a Robert Louis Stevensonpirate movie yeah and you’re doing yournamethey’re very classist about it andthey’re very classic about it based onwhat they’ve experienced from watching amasterpiece the air hmm and watchingmystery and whatever else they’regetting on BBC Americathey want modern they want modernreceived pronunciation for wealthypeople and they want modern worldpronunciation for middle-class peopleand they want Dick Van Dyke from MaryPoppins for poor people and that’sthat’s how they sort of sorted it outfor their there are little nogginI would love to enlarge their realityand expose them to yeah aristocraticcharacters that have the appropriatedialect but it’s a long slow fightsounds like she was thinking that butit’s really hard in a classic societythat’s very rigorously obsessed withsocial hierarchy and class status todislodge the class Association of thoseround vowels and those concepts sort ofant signs yeah and make it seem likethat no this is this is what peoplesound like it’s a cool opportunity it isI mean you know I when I learned aboutit I thought well you know allShakespeare should be done in this waybut then you you run it the risk of justdoing a museum piece yeah you know whichis what happens when they were likewe’re gonna do it an Elizabethan dressit’s like well they did that becausethat was contemporary for them yes I wasexcited when you find directors who finda really great way into the text thatalso makes it shockingly relevantyeah I wanted a very few people wholoved Shakespeare that I know that alsoloves Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo Juliet I’msorry I love it I love it I’m sorry theguy’s hilarious but the ways that someof the speech are reinterpretedreshuffle hysterical it’s super relevantwhen I wasI saw Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo Juliet in thetheatres and I think that’s 95 95 96there are all these teenage girlsleaving the theater at the endincoherently sobbing going oh you reallydidn’t know how it was going to beClaire Danes were in it yeah this isyour froze everything is broken but okayyeah landing with an audience right I Iwent to see because it was Shakespeareand my then-girlfriend wanted to see itbut I was lucky enough that I discoveredJohn Leguizamo in there as well and withthis guy he’s mask so well on that thingso just to pull his back even though I’dlove to talk about Aboriginalpronunciation a little bit more I willbe going out of my depth in that subjectareaso when you’re performing as Jane thefool you just are you I’m trying I’mtrying to figure that out how it workswith Jen as well you just I’m doing somenew things over the past five years I dookay my English about Jamesville the wayyou bloom in the spring yes so that’s myspring show and there’s all the proceedsfrom that show go to supportingeducation in the area so go to highschool scholarships scholarship fundsfor college for students they theycollect food for a food pantry at theentry there so it’s a it’s a show tofeel really good about supporting andit’s right it’s in a public park andit’s adorable and there’s a lot ofedutainment that goes on there there arelittle groups that are both entertainersand historical so for example the guildof st. Michael which is a group ofperformers who portray one of thetrained bands of the area which is acoming together of the militarycommanders of a bunch of regionalmilitias and they’ve got cannons andarmoury to try on and weapons that youcan learn about they do shows about hownot to die shows about the true art ofDefence in European self-defense at thetime another subject of mine come onpolymath I’m really interested in thatbut there’s there’s members of group orcarelessness or to attend there andthere’s okay Montford totally volley isthere sowhat I do in the springtime and then inthe fall there’s this fake castle inOregon Illinois called stronghold I wasjust there two weeks ago three threeweeks ago and it’s it was built by thefamily that owned the Chicago Daily Newsin the 1920s and 30sokay and they saw William RandolphHearst Xanadu do we have two dollars butit’s this adorable little replica of anEnglish castle and there’s these rollinghills and beautiful landscape is it madeof plastic it’s actually a lot ofplaster but currently it’s owned by theBlackhawks presbytery and it’s a retreatcenter so this one we got fair sort ofbenefits taking care of the center andkeeping up the ground so differentcommunity groups and other professionalorganizations will use it as a retreatplace or you know people get marriedthere have times they’re so beautifulgrounds cool organization of supportI’m not pretty to myself but so I sortof keep my hand in by doing those andthat I’ll do an odd day here they’re adifferent country or wherever I happento be right I practically have to buyits own tickets up get its own seat on aplane seriously I’m sitting here at mydresses sitting there so so that’s howyou you fill your year with Jane rightyes yes but there’s so much more to thefood works than doing the whole now yeahi gossiped your websiteokay there’s a there’s a lot going onhere there’s a lot it’s a lot my one ofthe things I do I do too many thingsit’s a factI say 16th century defense at a schoolin Stoughton Wisconsin called the st.Martin’s Academy of evil arts and myfight teacher who I affectionately referto as Spidey Bob Bob Doroughhis maestro is yeah he’s a fantasticfencing and wrestling and nice defenseteacher who studied PRA be dominatingItalians and the English and others hehe often looks at my life a ghost youneed to do fewer things humans is allknow it’s all full it’s all being a foolit’s just different facets of it so whatdo you what do you mean by thatbecause what I was trying to figure outyou you’ve said that couple of timesthat it all relates how how does it allconnect together for you so for me whatbeing a fool is and there’s there’swonderful books about I brought visualaidsokay sure this is a book by BeatriceOlive called fools are everywhere thecourt jester around the world and it’s awonderful cross cultural analysis ofthrough every cultures history thepeople who have fulfilled the office offool whether it’s medicine clowns inFirst Nations people’s around the worldwith a metaphor clown mixing clowns ormedicine people okay specifically theclowns in First Nations people’s I cantell you about in North America likepatch Adams you mean well kind of butwith with First Nations cultures in theUS like for example the Cherokee peopleyeah their medicine clown what one ofthe things that a messin faculty orCherokee culture isso somebody in a community who is doingsomething that’s outside the socialnorms and he’s damaging so he’s reallyvain they’re really concerned abouttheir appearance they’re gayton cosmetic surgery too much timefixing their hair we’re doing somethingthat is really focusing attention onthat yeah the most clown will followthem around all the timewhat they’re doing Wow okay until theperson finally turns around guys oh okayall right I see you and so that’s one ofthe ways in which the fool reflectssociety back to itself and goes gonnasure this is what you want to be likejust let me know I’m just a mirror andthe whole is a social mirror throughouta wide variety of cultures in Danishliterature there’s a character calledtill oil opera bass and he was a fool inDanish folklore and that character alsopops up in German folklore and a lot ofthe Nordic full doors and his name cantranslate to either owl mirror or wisemirror so when you see representationsof fools in northern European art orarchitecture or design a lot of timesyou’ll see them not holding the littlehat on a stick is a mirage or bauble asit’s sometimes called but you’ll see I’mholding a mirror or holding an owl orboth okay I’ll represent wisdom and it’sit’s it’s the wiser part of our naturethat really Ponder’s things and themirror is are you are you sure yeah likeI happen to have one right here becauseyou never know I have a very good onethere’s a marionette of a gesture thatwas bought for me as a Christmas presentfloat over from Denmark and sure enoughin one hand there’s an owl on the otherhand there’s a mirror will be allPlaymobil figures and like Legos but alittle bit bigger yeah maybe one or twoI think so if you buy Playmobil if youget a Playmobil gesture those are made Ithink they’re made in Denmark I mightbut I think there – the gesture figure Ibecomes with an owl or a mirror so youhave to like randomly buy a bunch ofthem to get by yeah I looked at like thefirst two I got the first one had a Ialmost like everyone had a mirror so Itried to be a bizarrely non-threateningmirror to people and go this is what’sgoing on are we sure we like it okayokay and that ties in with the music aswell right because you do some DJ workit does it does about a short story Idon’t try when I had been at the riffleFair for 24 yearssurely not I was frightfully long time Ihad actually back in the mid 90s I livedin Los Angeles briefly and discoveredhouse music yeah and it changed my lifeI loved it I was like wow look at thiscommunal celebration look at thesepeople dancing in streets which ties inwith others what I want to recommendyeah which is dancing in the streetsfive barbara ehrenreich overnickel-and-dime fan and it’s all aboutcollective joy expressions throughhistory which are now in our modern erarelegated only to sports and militarydisplays which is sad if you ask me yeahbut so once I started exploring housemusic culture and I came back to theMidwest where it wasn’t anymore eventhough it started in Chicago it was goneokay the houses of community worldwideand a woman named Sasha who ran ainternet radio TV station called idealclub world but I was really involvedwith and really interested in shereversed stalked me on Facebook and sawthat I’ve been and after came up for 24years so I wrote to her and said hey Iwant to for DJ’s to maybe win a spot onyour secondary channel she said now Irefer time recruiting you directly tothe residents of DJ team on the mainchannel you’ve been interacting withpeople forever and I was like I’ve neverbeat match stood in my life she’s likethe music is what brings people togetherbut what they stay for is humanconnection and that’s what you bring soso the facet of Jane the fool ISM that Ibring to everything that I do isconnecting with new people includingpeople in what I’m doingautomatically granting them access towhat I’m doing elevating people sayingyeah you you’ve passed the test whichwasn’t even a test you are in the incrowd and the in crowd is a cool andproud to be in the bridge between myselfand others and and making the experienceworth it for everyone involved so thethe DJing the does the show that I haveis called fool in the gang and it’s notready from soda nightly I’m definitelydressed yeah but um and how are youspending fool I I felt a special way fornon-standard spelling sake its pH doubleO le ph w la huh don’t come – Colinfool.com it’s all there the entire coolof verses there for you wonderful okayafter I started using that spelling Ilearned that that word in Hindi meansflower Gong noise nice coincidencenice and so you’ve been you’ve beenperforming at you know for quite a whileyou was mentioned about 24 years or soyou’ve done a lot of the gesturing asJane the fall you you work as a DJ andyou’re an author as well I understandfrom your website right is that a goodenough segue up sure I forgotten to talkabout it I’ve written two books herethey are – I didn’t I miss it a secondone I forgot about the second one okayso the first one published in 2012 iscalled easy streets Easy Streetokay and it is a guide for players inimprovised interactive environmentalperformance walk around entertainmentand first-person historicalinterpretation – I was lucky enough toget a blurb from Christopher Moore okayno you mom it’s the funniest and hereally gets what it is to be a fool yeswhat fool is the story of King Lear fromthe point of view of the pool right yeahI didn’t know that I’ve heard of it yesbut like he gets it he gets the role ofthe fool in society he gets that whenyou have the ability to speak truth topower you also have a responsibility tospeak truth to power and he just gets itX laughs out loud really funny so Iasked him to blur but cool so this mycovers everything from why to engage theaudience to how to engage the audiencewhat what’s necessary for breaking downthe barriers in terms of your look yoursound what you say how much each ofthose things matters and how importantit is to include the audience andelevate the audience so that they havean experience with you that they willremember the resttheir lives right if you’re playingnasty villains so so essentially thenlet’s say for example for argument sakeI want to go down this route I you knowI’m not I am I do have a background as aperformer as you know but let’s say Idon’t I’m interested in going in thereor I just graduated college and this issomething now that I’m interested inyeah by your book is there gonna helpset me along the path you can basicallyuse it as a workbook for creating yourfirst character nice deciding how youwant to orient that character towardsthe audience who the audience is yourcharacter who everyone in the audienceis to your character how you will makeeach person who pays to get in the mostimportant person in your story when youinteract with that person and what youcan leave each of those people with sothat you’ve made a difference in theirlife right but you will never forget andit’s all in there I have step-by-stepinstructions for how to brainstorm ideasfor characters that a lot of peoplefound really useful for brainstormingthings outside of character developmentfor interactive performance whether it’sa Wild West Show or a science fictionconvention or cosplay or research typeof thing a lot of people read EasyStreet and said hey that’s for everyoneand so that’s what my second book becamemake it worth it is all about make itworth it okay so what so this isessentially a more general version ofeasy street exactly exactly it reallyfocuses in on those four points ofinclude elevate build the bridge andmake it worth it so and putting togetherand make it worth it open the door to mefor another career which is motivationalspeaking so right should now have me inwhen they find that there’s a disconnectbetween their front lines their customerservice staffand the people that they’re trying toreach where the customer service staffno longer knows why it can act or how tohave a conversation which is a weirdthing about modern culture we have moreability to connect than ever but lessknowledge about why or how to connectright back for before rightresulting in like widespread socialisolation social rejection and itsassociated social ills yeah I mean it’sinteresting because I’m just sort ofthinking about this now I think that ifyou have like you do if you haveexperience interacting you know humaninteraction with people yes and then youget on social media I think it empathizethat it does finds it but if you don’thave that and then you get on socialmedia it seems to amplify what you don’thave that is very well put it absolutelyis an amplifier for rejection forclassism for tribalism for all of thecategorizations and divisions of peopleit makes it throws up its own obstaclesto connections in a lot of ways eventhough that’s oxymoronic goal since itsintended purpose is to connect peoplebecause we’re all you know we’ve all gotthe screens as well which you know a lotof certain younger generations alwaysget criticized for by yeah you knowolder generations but you know thatthat’s the way that we connect nowbecause they’re you know oldergenerations what you know probably we’rethe same generation what we’re always onthe phone in our youth and rage callingpeople up so the difference now is youhave the entire world an entire you knowhistory of knowledge in your phone andyou have everybody’s internal my lifebut yeah not necessarily be what youwould have consumed have you just beenwalking down the street with that personon your way to go sit on some swings atthe park right you wouldn’t necessarilyhave their entire political ideology arethereentire you know belief in a class systemor adherence to Reason social hierarchyyou might not have any idea about thatyou might just know that you likeMetallica and they like Metallica andyou listen this is metallica like minewe forget having just be a person withanother person yes yes a lot ofchallenges in people and people reallyconnecting people to hey we have someevolutionary opportunities to relearnthis special thing that makes us humanwhich is the way that we communicaterepeating people I’ve just written thatdown I like that read people peoplethat’s one of the phrases I use thatalmost gets a laugh and then gets upafterwards is people in those peoplethose people that you see every day butlook like people these people in themstatement but yeah we’ll just blatantlydisregard the humanity especially whenso many of us spent so many hours in alittle metal box hurtling on a concretestrip with each other yeah you’re inthis box and you hate every one of theother boxes right if you are all in acute Bank you’d at least feel like ohwe’re all sad and askew together mm-hmmbut you wouldn’t hate them for you knowmaybe not taking a step forward slightlyas quickly as you’d like right peopleit’s a reminder in this modern worldyeahyeah you’ve just sort of reminded methat you know in ancient Greece and inElizabethan times as well as tying thatin it’s a link very brittle everybodywould just be in the same space togetheryou know when they were you know theGreeks and their theatres and then youknow in Elizabethan theaters everyone’sjust in in it together yeah you know thefirst time I went to Italy I neverwanted to come home because part ofItalian culture particularly I haven’tbeen that far south before the South hadbeen his room but every day at fiveo’clock it’s five mil of pasta Giadait’s the time of day when you stopworking and everybody goes for a walkand the public squares are full ofpeople having conversations tellingstories about that day you know tellinganimated anecdotes about studio it’swhat we’re made for and I feel likethat’s one of the draws of the wholethird circus one of the reasons thatRenaissance Fairs just continued to growany popularity throughout the states isthat every other part of cultures sosocially disjointed that to be able togo to a thing that looks like a city andwe’re ridiculous clothes and haveconversations with strangers that becomeyour friends mm-hmm oh boy we’rebehaving like people yeah my only thingwith the Renaissance Fairs now is thatthere the name doesn’t seem toaccurately accurately reflect know thecharacters anymore no because we’ve nowbrought in steampunk which is not anissue but it’s like well it’s notRenaissance you know I remember when thePirates of the Caribbean movies came outand and everyone was coming dressed asCaptain Jack Sparrow so you’ve got the18th and 19th century in the 16thcentury there’s a number of people inthe in the biz those people say well I’mjust not gonna see them because theydon’t make sense to me in my factory I’mlike so you’re basically gonna justpunch them in the faceand go thanks for trying to engage in asocial activity right but you failedbecause you chose the wrong outfit so Ireject youyeah or just go what a charming personwho walks strangely like one of myfavorite sports to do as Dame the foolwas organized a jackass lon I get allpatrons together who are all dressed asCaptain Jack Sparrow and make them dorelay races concert you know doing thatand falling down and yeah hilarious tosee 40 it’s like the Monty Python yeswhere’s all the Queen Victoriathing a lot of people dresses the samething doing the same thing to be veryfunny yeah yeah but for everyone thereand I think that’s that’s the point isthat there’s room for steampunk there’sroom for spaceman right for piratesthere’s room for you know childrendresses dragons isn’t for everyonebecause we need everyone because it’sright absolutelyyou know but I think they should youknow have an a much more accurateaccurately reflects it they don’t youthink you call that like outdoorcombination cause calm right like Gameof Thronesnot sure yeah yeah re peopling peopleland right here be a person we’re rightget get your in a freak on right branbat or find a way to it is very puzzlingwhy don’t you go in expecting there tobe some accounts to the word Rene’s Anseand then you see nothing but you knowfalling lace cuffs and people on rollerskates and yeah yeah it’s pretty strangeawesome questions thank you so much Ifeel both erudite and slightly morefamous than I did beforewell it’s not been released yet but itwill be excellent and yeah I’ll justwrap things up so just to remind myselfand anybody who may deign to watch thisor listen to this we can find you atfull calm which is pH oo le calm that iscorrectthat’s where your entire full existenceis yeah you just click on any of thesquares on there and I’ll take you to anew thing there’s fool in the game whichyou find at Qualcomm there’s also fullspan harmonium which is the steampunkelectro swingversion of fool and the gang okay whichI take absence events it’s a combinationof music appropriate to that area andvisuals strictly from 1899 and before wedo a lot of mixing of George Bailey avideo and there’s the books there’s thepublic speakingthere’s the fool adversity which ispublic speaking and workshops okayand so the the interactive players wasEasy Street Easy Street and the morebroader version for a broader audience if you like is the makers make it worthit that is correctwonderful yay well it’s been fantastict hank you so much it’s been a greatpleasure yeah thank you very much thankyou so much again for your time and foryour your knowledge and the experience I really appreciate thank you very muchyeah thanks take care all right easierbye bye now[Music]

Addendum

This interview was one of my first interviews. It wasn’t until after the interview I came up with the question that I decided to nearly all subsequent interviewees.

“Given your experience as a jester and given your knowledge of the history, is there something that you feel modern comedy could learn from jesters? Do you ever see stand-ups, or movies, and think “oh, I wish they just did X?” Here’s her response:

“When I do experience this feeling, it’s when a comedian or comedy writer, director or producer is rejecting their function as a mirror – one of the core duties of Fools. When comedy doesn’t listen louder than it talks, it falls down and feels gratuitous and indulgent. When comedy is an honest mirror, really listening to and interacting with both its sources and its audience (which is also its source), I think comedy tells more truth and resonates more. It’s good for us to immerse ourselves in our ancient duty to be wise mirrors!”